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Modern?
Sept 27, 2011 23:30:33 GMT -6
Post by m4sterchef on Sept 27, 2011 23:30:33 GMT -6
I think we need a Modern section... But anyway, I came to ask if ANY slightly overpowered card is safe in Modern. It seems like they just keep dropping the banhammer. I can't see how that is a good thing. If Wizards gets it in their heads that players like having any slightly overpowered card removed from the format, it's gonna be like playing Pauper or something. I only say this because the Ban List is now nearly 30 cards. The most recent bannings are: Blazing Shoal (effective October 1, 2011) Cloudpost (effective October 1, 2011) Green Sun's Zenith (effective October 1, 2011) Ponder (effective October 1, 2011) Preordain (effective October 1, 2011) Rite of Flame (effective October 1, 2011) Now while I don't follow the Modern format as closely as some people, it seems like if you decide to invest in Modern to play it regularly, it wouldn't be a safe bet because of the fact that Wizards will now ban cards that see a lot of play. I'm scared that if I start trading cards to get a good Modern deck built, that in three-four months time, Wizards might ban the key cards to the deck, thereby rendering the entirety of my building, buying and trading to be worthless. Anyway... just looking for thoughts on the subject. Also.... BEHOLD. The mighty Ban Hammer!
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Modern?
Sept 28, 2011 5:45:35 GMT -6
Post by natedog08 on Sept 28, 2011 5:45:35 GMT -6
The bans were NEEDED for the format. Once the format becomes more balanced (I.E. not combo-heavy like the PT) they'll slow down bannings, and some may even come off of the ban list, depending on how the meta shapes up.
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Modern?
Sept 28, 2011 14:49:08 GMT -6
Post by m4sterchef on Sept 28, 2011 14:49:08 GMT -6
The bans WERE NOT needed. At least not so quickly. The format is still VERY new and the meta is still muddy as hell. People haven't had enough time to brew and test OTHER decks (read: decks other than infect) yet. It just seems like they're so quick on the bannings that it looks like it could become a habit. I mean, Ponder? Really? Thanks Wizards, I didn't wanna play control anyway.
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Modern?
Sept 28, 2011 15:11:10 GMT -6
Post by natedog08 on Sept 28, 2011 15:11:10 GMT -6
From Erik Lauer's article explaining the bannings:
"Before Pro Tour Philadelphia, the DCI's stated guideline for the Modern format was to avoid having decks that consistently win the game on turn three. With the results of the Pro Tour in, we are tweaking that goal to not having top-tier decks that consistently win on turn three (or earlier). We also have the goal of maintaining a diverse format.
Seeing the results, these still seem like reasonable goals. The Pro Tour is the highest level of competition, and the best deckbuilders in the world are likely to find the fastest and strongest decks. Many found blazingly fast decks. However, the winning deck could not deliver 20 damage (or equivalent) in less than four turns, and the second-place deck could very rarely do that either. This shows that the format has the potential to meet the initial vision, but it is not there yet.
Blazing Shoal Blazing Shoal decks exile cards with converted mana cost of at least 9 to deliver turn-two and turn-three kills using the infect mechanic (usually with Inkmoth Nexus or Blighted Agent). While this is exciting the first time, Blazing Shoal delivers that same quick kill too consistently.
Rite of Flame This was primarily used in combination decks to deliver very quick wins. While Jeremy Neeman did not make the Top 8 of the tournament, his Modern deck won nine out of ten matches, and did so with some extremely quick kills.
Ponder and Preordain A large number of blue-red combination decks kept the field less diverse. One thing that made them so efficient was the cards that would find their combinations. Ponder and Preordain were the most widely used of those cards. Banning these should make those combination decks somewhat less efficient without removing the possibility of playing them.
Cloudpost The threat of facing decks which could generate fifteen or more mana each turn starting on turn four kept a lot of different decks out of the tournament, greatly reducing the diversity. There are alternatives for people who wish to play mana-ramp decks, but they do not appear to be as crushing.
Green Sun's Zenith On turn one, this can give the acceleration of a Llanowar Elves by getting a Dryad Arbor. On later turns, it can get a large creature or a one-of "toolbox" creature such as Gaddock Teeg. While this is interesting, it is also too efficient. If one intends to build a deck that has turn-one accelerants, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more access to utility green creatures, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more reliably get a large green creature, such as a Primeval Titan, onto the battlefield, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. However, this ends up with fewer different decks being played in practice, as Green Sun's Zenith is such a good choice that there are fewer green decks that do anything else. The DCI hopes that banning Green Sun's Zenith increases diversity among Modern green decks."
Even if they did have time to brew, there would have been little to no diversity in the format due to the high strength of the combo decks, which results in a format that most players wouldn't enjoy. That's why these bannings were called for.
Oh, and Ponder/Preordain was a blow to Combo decks, not Control.
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Modern?
Oct 6, 2011 22:25:23 GMT -6
Post by m4sterchef on Oct 6, 2011 22:25:23 GMT -6
Do you REALLY feel that Green Sun's Zenith was too powerful and needed to be banned after one big tournament? REALLY? I can see Blazing Shoal, Rite of Flame and Cloudpost, but I feel that Ponder, Preordain, and Green Sun's Zenith needed to show A LOT more brokenness to get the hammer.
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Post by th3on3songoku on Oct 7, 2011 8:46:35 GMT -6
ponde and preordain was ok in control they 20 x better in combo. control doesnt need those cards we have really good card draw already and not to mentiom gifts. i am ok with the bans its a new format that they dont want to go out control to fast some will come off the the some wont. its better to have a balance format then a broken one shoal got banned cause yes blighted agent is that good but killable i think the non infect hex proof agent is what got it banned.
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Modern?
Oct 7, 2011 11:18:26 GMT -6
Post by kartheunlucky on Oct 7, 2011 11:18:26 GMT -6
To put what Ben is trying to say into something that is readable:
Ponder/Preordain made combo decks WAY too good. Wizards wants a diverse format, not only in specific decks (such as Zoo, Splinter Twin, etc.) but also in archetypes (aggro, combo, control).
With Ponder/Preordain, combo decks were king, with only aggro decks to keep them down. There were no real control decks. I think by banning those two cards, a control deck could happen.
Green Sun's Zenith was way too good, and an aggro deck's best friend. Turn one Zenith gets Dryad Arbor, and just gets ridiculous from there.
Thus the banhammer.
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Modern?
Oct 7, 2011 12:53:21 GMT -6
Post by natedog08 on Oct 7, 2011 12:53:21 GMT -6
Go through the tournament reports for the Modern PT (both on the mainsite and from players). While looking in it may seem that these weren't needed, reading through the tournament reports displays how badly these things needed to be banned.
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